Posted July 20, 2010 at 3:10pm
, Edited July 20, 2010 at 3:17pmLink
why is it that idiots like this need to turn church in to a form of showbiz.
it`s beyond me that anybody would take this guy`s message seriously.
there`s nothing wrong with getting the message out there, but not in way that makes you look like a complete tool.
Posted July 22, 2010 at 1:23am
, Edited July 22, 2010 at 1:23amLink
@dizzy
These hypocrites always remind me of Jesus' words in Matthew 6:1-4
"Take good care not to practice your righteousness in front of men in order to be observed by them; otherwise you will have no reward with your Father who is in the heavens. Hence when you go making gifts of mercy, do not blow a trumpet ahead of you, just as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be glorified by men. Truly I say to you, They are having their reward in full. But you, when making gifts of mercy, do not let your left hand know what your right is doing, that your gifts of mercy may be in secret; then your Father who is looking on in secret will repay you."
And the way he twists Jesus' words is just pathetic. Jesus condemned the commercialization of the temple, not going out and buying stuff. When you go out and buy a PS3, you're not profiting in theocratic means. Now, when you go on TV or malls, "blow a trumpet ahead of you" and profit from the tithe (or donations) of your parishioners... now that's something different. I'm pretty sure he didn't get that showy outfit and ridiculous haircut free. Looking at these spectacles disgust me.
Heaven, sure, hell I'm not sure about because if God forgives people for their sins I would think there wouldn't be a need for one.
Not an active church goer, I feel it's rather boring and see no point in going when I can just read up on the bible at home :/ -MTL
i have to disagree with u there MTL because we all know about the holocaust and what Hitler did if u were God would forgive someone for killing millions of innocent people for nothing they did to u or ur country tell me that
how do you consider death to be punishment when you`ve have never died.
if you had never eaten chocolate. it`s would be like me telling you it has it`s own unique flavour, and it`s very sweet. you would never know, unless you tried it.
i`m not suggest that you should go and die, but my point is, when you have eventualy died, you`re not nieve to the concept of being dead.
living in fear of death, should feal more like a punishment. even though i`ll never understand others fears if it, because i cant see how i can be scared of something that i can never repeat. where as i can be scared of heights, because i have a physical sense of it. death i don`t.
I don't need to have died to know what is death. Death is the opposite of life. Death is to no longer be alive. How does it feel to actually die? Of course I don't know, but the punishment of not being able to live again or continue living is punishment enough.
@josean. stop me if i`m wrong. you beleive in heaven. and your going to be there for eternity when you`re eventualy dead. everybody you know, and love will go there too, so you`re never going to be alone.
this reality we know of is more of a punishment, because of all of the violence, the diseases, and poverty that are inflicted on the world we live in.
the way i look at things around me. is that with all of the unknown and unexplainable things out there. there must a force greater than what i can currently percieve and understand.
how people choose to make sense of these things are based on there own opinions and beliefs from what they have learned. whether it`s 1 god, many gods, or something all together different.
and i know that in this reality that i will never know the full truth of how things realy are. and maybe, death is part of the process in moving forward to the next level of understanding what it is that i am blind to.
Posted September 25, 2010 at 4:14am
, Edited September 25, 2010 at 4:28amLink
Well, let me stop you there...
I believe what the Bible says.
The promise given to the deserving ones in the Bible is that they will live in a peaceful Earth. For example:
Let anger alone and leave rage;
Do not show yourself heated up only to do evil.
For evildoers themselves will be cut off,
But those hoping in Jehovah are the ones that will possess the earth.
And just a little while longer, and the wicked one will be no more;
And you will certainly give attention to his place, and he will not be.
But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth, And they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace - Psalms 37: 9-11
Even Jesus in his famous sermon of the Mount said: %u201CHappy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth.%u201D - Matthew 5:5
The whole Bible talks about promising "everlasting life" in a peaceful Earth. Isaiah details what will happen in that new earth. For example, the Bible says that there would be no suffering (Revelations 21:4), that "at that time the lame one will climb up just as a stag does" (Isaiah 35:6), that "At that time the eyes of the blind ones will be opened, and the very ears of the deaf ones will be unstopped (Isaiah 35:5), that no one will be sick (Isaiah 33:24), that there will be no more food shortages or famine for "there will come to be plenty of grain on the earth; On the top of the mountains there will be an overflow." (Psalms 72:16) and read Isaiah 11:6-9 where it explains how in that promised Earth the animals will not be violent, rather "the sucking child will certainly play upon the hole of the cobra". These promises found in the Bible are an obvious reference to life in a peaceful Earth, for these are very earthly descriptions and not at all heavenly.%u2028%u2028
Yes, it all sounds fantastic. But its what the Bible promises and it makes sense. Isn't that what God envisioned for people in the first place? A peaceful Earth for us to enjoy?
Now... this is a very extensive subject which I could gladly go into detail with you. However, what we were talking about was death. And we do have a point of agreement. That there is something further than just eating, drinking and dying. However, I don't believe that promise of everlasting life is acquired exclusively after death. The Bible says that God will destroy the evil ones, like we read in Psalms a little earlier, and grant everlasting life to the righteous ones. This event (popularly know as Armageddon), however unlikely, has the possibility of happening in our lifetime. Of course, the reality is that for most of humanity, death is the end of it all. And everyone hopes for the words on John 5:28, 29:
"Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment."
One of the basic principles of Christianity, the resurrection. Those who survive Armageddon, will receive everlasting life. Those who died before it, are resurrected for life or for judgement. Notice that in these terms death is just a waiting game. The Bible does not define death as a blessing or as a gate to a new life. Death is a punishment. Death is an enemy. The Bible specifically says: "For the wages sin pays is death" (Romans 6:23). It is the result of unrighteousness. It is the opposite of life. THAT is why I say that death is punishment enough. And not just death, but death forever. For those who do what is right, even if they die, they can still be resurrected to a new life of peace. But does who have done evil, they have no such hope. Once they die, they die forever. They are non-existent.
You say you are living the small amount of time you have in this miserable world but with the hope that once you die there must be something that transcends our lowly conditions. Now imagine that you can not even have that hope. That the result of your existence is this miserable life. That once you die... you die. Done. Nothing more. Imagine you're one of those rapists or murderers or whatever. You had your momentary pleasure, coolio. But that's it. You know that's it. You raped, killed and maimed whatever you could in your miserable small years and your punishment is that... non-existence. Knowing you could have lived forever... but you chose to die forever.
My original claim was that hell is not necessary. According to the Bible, death is the wage of your sin. No hope of living.
@ xcalibur. this thread is far from spam.
the whole point of this thread and the forum board on which it`s put in, is to debate on, or bring awareness of more serious issues.
so far, nobady has left this forum, disliking other members. because of opposing views or beliefs.
if things were had gone out of context, caused distress to other members, or gone against site rules, then yes, it would be classed as spam, and would have been locked along time ago. especialy as we have joseen (a site moderator, and one of the more respected members of the site) regularly contributing to the thread, i`m sure he would have locked this if it were necessary.
of 7 badges
i agree with yeah.
of 16 badges
why is it that idiots like this need to turn church in to a form of showbiz.
it`s beyond me that anybody would take this guy`s message seriously.
there`s nothing wrong with getting the message out there, but not in way that makes you look like a complete tool.
of 13 badges
of 14 badges
These hypocrites always remind me of Jesus' words in Matthew 6:1-4
"Take good care not to practice your righteousness in front of men in order to be observed by them; otherwise you will have no reward with your Father who is in the heavens. Hence when you go making gifts of mercy, do not blow a trumpet ahead of you, just as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be glorified by men. Truly I say to you, They are having their reward in full. But you, when making gifts of mercy, do not let your left hand know what your right is doing, that your gifts of mercy may be in secret; then your Father who is looking on in secret will repay you."
And the way he twists Jesus' words is just pathetic. Jesus condemned the commercialization of the temple, not going out and buying stuff. When you go out and buy a PS3, you're not profiting in theocratic means. Now, when you go on TV or malls, "blow a trumpet ahead of you" and profit from the tithe (or donations) of your parishioners... now that's something different. I'm pretty sure he didn't get that showy outfit and ridiculous haircut free. Looking at these spectacles disgust me.
of 8 badges
of 5 badges
Heaven, sure, hell I'm not sure about because if God forgives people for their sins I would think there wouldn't be a need for one.
Not an active church goer, I feel it's rather boring and see no point in going when I can just read up on the bible at home :/ -MTL
i have to disagree with u there MTL because we all know about the holocaust and what Hitler did if u were God would forgive someone for killing millions of innocent people for nothing they did to u or ur country tell me that
of 14 badges
of 16 badges
if you had never eaten chocolate. it`s would be like me telling you it has it`s own unique flavour, and it`s very sweet. you would never know, unless you tried it.
i`m not suggest that you should go and die, but my point is, when you have eventualy died, you`re not nieve to the concept of being dead.
living in fear of death, should feal more like a punishment. even though i`ll never understand others fears if it, because i cant see how i can be scared of something that i can never repeat. where as i can be scared of heights, because i have a physical sense of it. death i don`t.
of 14 badges
of 16 badges
this reality we know of is more of a punishment, because of all of the violence, the diseases, and poverty that are inflicted on the world we live in.
the way i look at things around me. is that with all of the unknown and unexplainable things out there. there must a force greater than what i can currently percieve and understand.
how people choose to make sense of these things are based on there own opinions and beliefs from what they have learned. whether it`s 1 god, many gods, or something all together different.
and i know that in this reality that i will never know the full truth of how things realy are. and maybe, death is part of the process in moving forward to the next level of understanding what it is that i am blind to.
of 14 badges
I believe what the Bible says.
The promise given to the deserving ones in the Bible is that they will live in a peaceful Earth. For example:
Let anger alone and leave rage;
Do not show yourself heated up only to do evil.
For evildoers themselves will be cut off,
But those hoping in Jehovah are the ones that will possess the earth.
And just a little while longer, and the wicked one will be no more;
And you will certainly give attention to his place, and he will not be.
But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth, And they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace - Psalms 37: 9-11
Even Jesus in his famous sermon of the Mount said:
%u201CHappy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth.%u201D - Matthew 5:5
The whole Bible talks about promising "everlasting life" in a peaceful Earth. Isaiah details what will happen in that new earth. For example, the Bible says that there would be no suffering (Revelations 21:4), that "at that time the lame one will climb up just as a stag does" (Isaiah 35:6), that "At that time the eyes of the blind ones will be opened, and the very ears of the deaf ones will be unstopped (Isaiah 35:5), that no one will be sick (Isaiah 33:24), that there will be no more food shortages or famine for "there will come to be plenty of grain on the earth; On the top of the mountains there will be an overflow." (Psalms 72:16) and read Isaiah 11:6-9 where it explains how in that promised Earth the animals will not be violent, rather "the sucking child will certainly play upon the hole of the cobra". These promises found in the Bible are an obvious reference to life in a peaceful Earth, for these are very earthly descriptions and not at all heavenly.%u2028%u2028
Yes, it all sounds fantastic. But its what the Bible promises and it makes sense. Isn't that what God envisioned for people in the first place? A peaceful Earth for us to enjoy?
Now... this is a very extensive subject which I could gladly go into detail with you. However, what we were talking about was death. And we do have a point of agreement. That there is something further than just eating, drinking and dying. However, I don't believe that promise of everlasting life is acquired exclusively after death. The Bible says that God will destroy the evil ones, like we read in Psalms a little earlier, and grant everlasting life to the righteous ones. This event (popularly know as Armageddon), however unlikely, has the possibility of happening in our lifetime. Of course, the reality is that for most of humanity, death is the end of it all. And everyone hopes for the words on John 5:28, 29:
"Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment."
One of the basic principles of Christianity, the resurrection. Those who survive Armageddon, will receive everlasting life. Those who died before it, are resurrected for life or for judgement. Notice that in these terms death is just a waiting game. The Bible does not define death as a blessing or as a gate to a new life. Death is a punishment. Death is an enemy. The Bible specifically says: "For the wages sin pays is death" (Romans 6:23). It is the result of unrighteousness. It is the opposite of life. THAT is why I say that death is punishment enough. And not just death, but death forever. For those who do what is right, even if they die, they can still be resurrected to a new life of peace. But does who have done evil, they have no such hope. Once they die, they die forever. They are non-existent.
You say you are living the small amount of time you have in this miserable world but with the hope that once you die there must be something that transcends our lowly conditions. Now imagine that you can not even have that hope. That the result of your existence is this miserable life. That once you die... you die. Done. Nothing more. Imagine you're one of those rapists or murderers or whatever. You had your momentary pleasure, coolio. But that's it. You know that's it. You raped, killed and maimed whatever you could in your miserable small years and your punishment is that... non-existence. Knowing you could have lived forever... but you chose to die forever.
My original claim was that hell is not necessary. According to the Bible, death is the wage of your sin. No hope of living.
of 10 badges
of 16 badges
the whole point of this thread and the forum board on which it`s put in, is to debate on, or bring awareness of more serious issues.
so far, nobady has left this forum, disliking other members. because of opposing views or beliefs.
if things were had gone out of context, caused distress to other members, or gone against site rules, then yes, it would be classed as spam, and would have been locked along time ago. especialy as we have joseen (a site moderator, and one of the more respected members of the site) regularly contributing to the thread, i`m sure he would have locked this if it were necessary.