Posted April 2, 2008 at 6:04am
, Edited April 2, 2008 at 6:18amLink
Do you beleive in God? (42 Votes)
Yes (35 Votes, 83%)
No (7 Votes, 17%)
Let me try again. Genesis is a fairy tail. Noah and his ark are a fairy tale. Jesus is a fairy tale. The stories of the kings and wars of the Jewish people refer mostly to events that have been corroborated through other sources. Many of the details are impossible to confirm or discredit simply because they are so specific. Is Daniel the one where he interprets the dreams of Nebakanezer(great name)? How could we possibly know if that detail is true without a Babylonian account?
When I say I don't believe in the bible, I mean I don't believe in its divine origin, or its supernatural claims. Believing some parts of the bible is not the same as "having faith" in the bible. Just as I can believe that there was a city called Troy that was sacked, and not believe that there was a minotaur in a labyrinth. One thing is plausible and has some archaeological evidence. the other is ridiculous sounding and has no evidence whatsoever.
I believe in god, jesus and the bible. i am a christian, but im not going to shove facts to prove this stuff down your throughts if you don't believe in god and such.
Quote GammingGod: I believe in god, jesus and the bible. i am a christian, but im not going to shove facts to prove this stuff down your throughts if you don't believe in god and such.
thats the whole point of discussing this. every point of veiw is valid, regardless of beliefs.
does anybody here follow a different religion other than christianity? i would love to read what your views and beliefs are.
here's the list of things that just don't work for me, so just sit n' listen.
1. If the dinosaurs were around with humans, the humans would have died out by whatever killed all the dinosaurs, because if you hadn't noticed, dinosaurs are much, much more sturdy than humans.
2. If the bible is right, then what of all the other religions which all have different beliefs? are they wrong? remember, the first religion wasn't judiasm or christianity, it was the babylonian's or the Egyptian's religion, so what of them? they all had completely different ideas which you would call absurd, but is it anymore as absurd as what the bible tells you?
3. if all the other humans died when noah's flood happened, that means that noah's family would have had to have completely re-populated the planet, which is insane, if you ask me.
4. eve was made from adam's rib, which it states in the bible, then doesn't that make them of relation, then doesn't that mean that a brother and a sister made every person on earth? if that is true, everyone would be incest children, and all the people of earth would have the same skin colour and eyes and hair colour.
5. all of a sudden, in the newer part of the bible, god decides to completely turn nice all of a sudden and stop culling people by the hundreds just to prove a point: what happened there?
6. when did god stop coming to earth to intervene like he did before? he must've just stopped, eh?
7. if god made everything, why was there no mention of the rest of the galaxy or universe in the bible? because if he was there, he obviously must have known, right?
8. last but not least, if god made everything, who made god? did he just appear out of no-where? doesn't seem likely, as we needed a god to create the earth, so what god created our god?
there are many more points i have, but i can't be bothered to keep rambling on, y'see? just doesn't add up, right?
Quote Goobuoojuice: here's the list of things that just don't work for me, so just sit n' listen.
1. If the dinosaurs were around with humans, the humans would have died out by whatever killed all the dinosaurs, because if you hadn't noticed, dinosaurs are much, much more sturdy than humans.
2. If the bible is right, then what of all the other religions which all have different beliefs? are they wrong? remember, the first religion wasn't judiasm or christianity, it was the babylonian's or the Egyptian's religion, so what of them? they all had completely different ideas which you would call absurd, but is it anymore as absurd as what the bible tells you?
3. if all the other humans died when noah's flood happened, that means that noah's family would have had to have completely re-populated the planet, which is insane, if you ask me.
4. eve was made from adam's rib, which it states in the bible, then doesn't that make them of relation, then doesn't that mean that a brother and a sister made every person on earth? if that is true, everyone would be incest children, and all the people of earth would have the same skin colour and eyes and hair colour.
5. all of a sudden, in the newer part of the bible, god decides to completely turn nice all of a sudden and stop culling people by the hundreds just to prove a point: what happened there?
6. when did god stop coming to earth to intervene like he did before? he must've just stopped, eh?
7. if god made everything, why was there no mention of the rest of the galaxy or universe in the bible? because if he was there, he obviously must have known, right?
8. last but not least, if god made everything, who made god? did he just appear out of no-where? doesn't seem likely, as we needed a god to create the earth, so what god created our god?
there are many more points i have, but i can't be bothered to keep rambling on, y'see? just doesn't add up, right?
According to the law of cause and effect, every material object must have a greater cause to have an effect.
God is not a material object.
It is also imposible for life to pop up on its own without something supernatural.
Quote Goobuoojuice: here's the list of things that just don't work for me, so just sit n' listen.
1. If the dinosaurs were around with humans, the humans would have died out by whatever killed all the dinosaurs, because if you hadn't noticed, dinosaurs are much, much more sturdy than humans.
2. If the bible is right, then what of all the other religions which all have different beliefs? are they wrong? remember, the first religion wasn't judiasm or christianity, it was the babylonian's or the Egyptian's religion, so what of them? they all had completely different ideas which you would call absurd, but is it anymore as absurd as what the bible tells you?
3. if all the other humans died when noah's flood happened, that means that noah's family would have had to have completely re-populated the planet, which is insane, if you ask me.
4. eve was made from adam's rib, which it states in the bible, then doesn't that make them of relation, then doesn't that mean that a brother and a sister made every person on earth? if that is true, everyone would be incest children, and all the people of earth would have the same skin colour and eyes and hair colour.
5. all of a sudden, in the newer part of the bible, god decides to completely turn nice all of a sudden and stop culling people by the hundreds just to prove a point: what happened there?
6. when did god stop coming to earth to intervene like he did before? he must've just stopped, eh?
7. if god made everything, why was there no mention of the rest of the galaxy or universe in the bible? because if he was there, he obviously must have known, right?
8. last but not least, if god made everything, who made god? did he just appear out of no-where? doesn't seem likely, as we needed a god to create the earth, so what god created our god?
there are many more points i have, but i can't be bothered to keep rambling on, y'see? just doesn't add up, right?
1) Dinosaurs weren't around with humans.
2) I don't understand this question. God established his rules through the Bible, does who do not follow are wrong.
3) It isn't absurd. There weren't that much people during Noah's era.
4) This doesn't make sense. It doesn't matter which belief you want to follow, humans started through a pair. What are you trying to ask?
5) Can elaborate on this?
6) He never came to Earth to intervene.
7) There is mention of stars and the vast space on the Bible.
8) This is a matter that cannot be answered. The Bible says that God has no beginning or end; it's a belief hold by faith. Our lives are ruled by beginnings and ends. Everything that goes up, most come down. Everything that lives, dies. Everything that is will stop to be. The notion of something that does not abide by our rules is incomprehensible. However, the same thing can be done with the "scientific" theories. OK, the Big Bang started everything, but who caused the Big Bang? Who put the materials needed for the Big Bang there? How did matter came to exist in nothing? When you try look for a beginning in the origin, you'll never be able to find it.
8God is the alpha and omega, the beginning and the end. time is nothing to him
7it says God made everything. the sun the moon the skyies the stars. id have to say that thats the entire universe.
6um. God is still here all around us. hes the reason we are alive. so the answer is never. (not sure if that was ur question though)
5are you reffering to the new promise?
btw thats when Jesus' ministry began, the whole new testament is about Jesus and his disiples work. not sure what u are reffering too wen u say he got nice. yea he killed everyone on earth in the flood. he knew he had to fix things up. notice that he promises to never do that again. which he has kept that promise. (he has all the right to do it again, but he doesnt. take a look at the world we live in..)
4well the answer isnt so simple here. good question. i guess my question for you is, what defines race? becuase im pretty sure its based on the cultere, the location and all that good stuff.
weve had a lot a lot of time to change after all the continents formed. and if you believe in evolution, then the answer is right there.
as for those who beileve in what the bible says, member wen cain found his wife? the land of nod is what its known as. adam and eve where the first. period. but there were other people, later on. if you care so much, study. i dont care to cus i just believe. its such a simple little thing
3well did adam and eve not populate the whole earth. its possible with God. noah and his fam obviously believed in God. otherwise they woundt have made the ark. hello
2very hard to explain. the first century church marks the beginning of christianity. reason for the other religions, is cus ppl have free will. we have the choice what to believe. sorry i cant answer this one with something cold and hard. our will as humans just isnt the blunt. its unfortunant to all those ppl who dont beileve in anything, as its a discrace to what we as ppl are capable of. to have faith.
1um dinosaurs were before humans, im right sure. at least based on evolution. but, if ur not in that crap, again, with God they were safe. and yes, dinosaurs are much more sturdy and stuff. but humans are just a little smarter. the cave men werent as stupid as they look ok.
stupid geico commercials. (gieco right?)
theres my two cents
Posted April 2, 2008 at 6:00pm
, Edited April 2, 2008 at 6:03pmLink
Quote rababob: Let me try again. Genesis is a fairy tail. Noah and his ark are a fairy tale. Jesus is a fairy tale. The stories of the kings and wars of the Jewish people refer mostly to events that have been corroborated through other sources. Many of the details are impossible to confirm or discredit simply because they are so specific. Is Daniel the one where he interprets the dreams of Nebakanezer(great name)? How could we possibly know if that detail is true without a Babylonian account?
When I say I don't believe in the bible, I mean I don't believe in its divine origin, or its supernatural claims. Believing some parts of the bible is not the same as "having faith" in the bible. Just as I can believe that there was a city called Troy that was sacked, and not believe that there was a minotaur in a labyrinth. One thing is plausible and has some archaeological evidence. the other is ridiculous sounding and has no evidence whatsoever.
Again, you're talking out of ignorance. But that's OK, if you allow me, I can explain to you what historians and scientists agree on; not what fanatics want to believe.
So, lets start with the book of Genesis. To understand the first verses of Genesis where it talks about the origin of everything, we need to look at this impartially. You may find that hard, but the best way to study something is to be objective.
There are a couple of things that need to be taken into understanding before reading the account of creation:
1) It wasn't written as a "how" of creation. Hence, it informs progressively of wholesome and important events; it describes the things that were formed, the order in which they were given form, and the amount of time (or "days") in which each one appeared originally.
2) It is important to remember that the account is written as being on Earth. Which means that the process is described with the point of view of somebody on Earth.
I'm not going to duel deeper into this matter. But basically, the account written on Genesis is respected by scientists as an accurate list of order in which the events would take place.
It is obvious Moses could not have known or copied this from somewhere else.
The Illustrated Bible Dictionary explains: "It still hasn't been found a myth that refers explicitly to the creation of the universe" and those myths that have been found "are stained by polytheism and deity battles for supremacy, in high contrast with the monotheistic Hebrew account of Genesis 1-2." The Museum of Britain said: The fundamental concepts of the Babylonian and Hebrew accounts are essentially different".
Now, if Moses didn't copy this account from somewhere else, how could he know with incredible accuracy the exact steps for the origin of life. Something that has been discovered only recently, in the past century?
Even evolutionists agree that the steps for creation written on the Bible are accurate and reflect the steps scientist have recently theorized on.
Noah and his ark are a fairy tale
May I ask how so?
There are many things that can collaborate this story.
Basically, there is enough water on Earth to flood the entire world. This is a fact.
I know this is a laughing matter for many people, but if you are willing to be serious about it, we can discuss it.
Jesus is a fairy tale
What are you saying? That Jesus did not exist or that he did exist but his life wasn't portrayed faithfully in the Bible?
Saying that Jesus did not exist is a pretty absurd claim. The existence of Jesus is testified by Jewish literature, amongst these the historian Josephus; by Roman accounts (which include but are not limited to writings from Tacitus, Suetonus, and Plinus the Young) and, of course, by the epistles and gospels.
Jesus was documented by historians, even the most powerful enemies of Christians during the Roman era did not deny his existence; it is absurd to do so now.
Also, can somebody that not existed be able to influence the world so incredible to the extent that even 2000 years later, his teachings are still latent in civilizations? I mean, even our calculation of years is based on Jesus existence.
The stories of the kings and wars of the Jewish people refer mostly to events that have been corroborated through other sources. Many of the details are impossible to confirm or discredit simply because they are so specific. Is Daniel the one where he interprets the dreams of Nebakanezer(great name)? How could we possibly know if that detail is true without a Babylonian account?
Um... what?
It is a fact that those books were written during their era. The story of the Jews were written during the time of the Jews. Daniel wrote the book during his time in Babylon.
The collaboration with other contemporaneous accounts is what makes the historic accuracy so incredible.
What, you think Moses turned on his computer and accessed the internet to learn about the wars of Jews?
You think Daniel went to the library with his library card to take an encyclopedia of the history of Babylon?
BTW, I see you're making fun of the name Nebakanezer. Funny, because that name, amongst hundreds of others, are confirmed by Babylonian scrolls to be authentic. Nebakanezer was a Babylonian King.
Alright, I REALLY don't mean to offend anyone, but I'm going to state my main reason for being atheist. I expect Josean to come up with some great DH.6 (Refutation of central point :)
For as lonf as I can remember, I have believed that religion is how scared people espace from the realities of real life. It is not a default in people, but more of an emotion. They wish to hide the fact that they are scared of the truth, and make up things to explain the unknown to themselves. It has happened as long as humans have existed (Which, I am pretty sure, Ben, is more than 6000 years lol).
For as lonf as I can remember, I have believed that religion is how scared people espace from the realities of real life.
In a sense, that is true. However, every belief is hold by faith.
I can say that atheism is how scared people escape from the realities of life. For example, being hold accountable for their mistakes. Some use it as a way to justify their ways. And others (most of them) hold atheism for hate towards religion.
They wish to hide the fact that they are scared of the truth, and make up things to explain the unknown to themselves.
We all make up things to explain the unknown to ourselves.
Knowing if we came from monkeys or pigs makes no difference in my life.
I have moral, principles and a purpose in life; many things which religious fanatics and atheist lack vividly.
But, I do agree with you that religion is a farse and a way to make money and dominate the masses.
That's why, after studying throughly, I revolve my life around what the Bible says. I assure you, like rababob has exemplified, there are many misconceptions about the Bible. Most hold tight by fanatics because "they are scared of the truth".
Most people haven't study the Bible, even less read it. Have you? Most people base their judgment on the Bible from religion.
Quote Josean: For as lonf as I can remember, I have believed that religion is how scared people espace from the realities of real life.
In a sense, that is true. However, every belief is hold by faith.
I can say that atheism is how scared people escape from the realities of life. For example, being hold accountable for their mistakes. Some use it as a way to justify their ways. And others (most of them) hold atheism for hate towards religion.
They wish to hide the fact that they are scared of the truth, and make up things to explain the unknown to themselves.
We all make up things to explain the unknown to ourselves.
Knowing if we came from monkeys or pigs makes no difference in my life.
I have moral, principles and a purpose in life; many things which religious fanatics and atheist lack vividly.
But, I do agree with you that religion is a farse and a way to make money and dominate the masses.
That's why, after studying throughly, I revolve my life around what the Bible says. I assure you, like rababob has exemplified, there are many misconceptions about the Bible. Most hold tight by fanatics because "they are scared of the truth".
Most people haven't study the Bible, even less read it. Have you? Most people base their judgment on the Bible from religion.
You never let us down, do you Josean? :)
"We all make up things to explain the unknown to ourselves."
I mentioned that as well. this is one of my favorite arguments to make.
"Most people haven't study the Bible, even less read it. Have you? Most people base their judgment on the Bible from religion."
Yes, I HAVE read it, and keep in mind that I am not criticizing it. I have respect for the Bible and it's scholars. It shows a great amount of devotion, which I am highly in favor of.
I would also like to make clear that I am atheist because it is what I have convinced myself of, and I believe I am correct. It's not for any hate reasons.
I am Catholic but I, like everyone else, have had my doubts. You always ask yourself "Who am I?" "Where did I come from?" "Where did everything come from?" "
You will reach a point in you answer yourself that there has to be a Superior Being that created everything, and that Being is God.
Josean says,"basically, the account written on Genesis is respected by scientists as an accurate list of order in which the events would take place."
Really? I'm sure that there are plenty of christian apologists who say that, so let's take a cursory look at genesis and see if it pans out.
Day 1: god makes light. Day 2: god makes sky and water. Day 3: god makes dry land. Then he makes plants. Day 4: God makes the sun and the moon and the stars. Day 5: god makes fish and birds. Day 6: god makes livestock and creatures that walk on the ground. Then god makes people. Day 7: god sparks a fatty.
So plants come before the sun the moon and the stars? Birds come at the same time as fish and before land animals like lizards? Domesticated animals come at the same time as wild? You can pick and choose the parts of the bible that don't contradict scientific discoveries, but don't try and tell me that scientists are amazed by the bible's accuracy. They aren't.
Noah: The story of a man who puts two of every creature on a boat, where the animals themselves come to the boat and don't kill each other presumes that god is intervening. Depending on how you define every type of creature, there could simply not be enough space for all the animals. It's a nice story, but not at all beleivable, unless you already accept that god can fix all the problems.
Jesus: Well I meant that the miracles were made up. But there is a question as to whether he actually was an historical figure. I don't care to argue one way or the other about whether he actually lived, but if anyone's interested check youtube for The God that wasn't There. But miracles don't happen. If you want me to think that they did, you'll need to do some splainin. The default position is to ignore claims of magic.
As far as the effect christianity has had on the world, I'm no more impressed by Mohammed's or Zoaster's or john Smith's, or L Ron Hubbard's effect on the world. Western success is more attributable to guns germs and steel than to Christ.
Daniel: It's your example, so I used it to illustrate a point about the limits of historical corroboration. Archeology can confirm if people lived where the bible says they lived. And other writings can confirm things like the names of kings and other important people. But the details, like whether or not Daniel interpreted Nebakenezar's dreams, can't be confirmed unless we find a Babylonian account, which we haven't.
And not that it matters but I think Nebakenezar is an awesome name.
But is the bible so incredibly accurate? It's not perfect. Like I said, the 40 years in the wilderness story has no evidence and sounds made up. But it is partly a history of the Jews so it isn't surprizing that there is some accuracy in the kings and wars of the Jews. But what does this have to do with stories of magic and angels and devils? That stuff isn't believable without other evidence. The historical and scientific accuracy arguements don't help, and not just because they aren't true.
Quote ADAM: 8God is the alpha and omega, the beginning and the end. time is nothing to him
7it says God made everything. the sun the moon the skyies the stars. id have to say that thats the entire universe.
6um. God is still here all around us. hes the reason we are alive. so the answer is never. (not sure if that was ur question though)
5are you reffering to the new promise?
btw thats when Jesus' ministry began, the whole new testament is about Jesus and his disiples work. not sure what u are reffering too wen u say he got nice. yea he killed everyone on earth in the flood. he knew he had to fix things up. notice that he promises to never do that again. which he has kept that promise. (he has all the right to do it again, but he doesnt. take a look at the world we live in..)
4well the answer isnt so simple here. good question. i guess my question for you is, what defines race? becuase im pretty sure its based on the cultere, the location and all that good stuff.
weve had a lot a lot of time to change after all the continents formed. and if you believe in evolution, then the answer is right there.
as for those who beileve in what the bible says, member wen cain found his wife? the land of nod is what its known as. adam and eve where the first. period. but there were other people, later on. if you care so much, study. i dont care to cus i just believe. its such a simple little thing
3well did adam and eve not populate the whole earth. its possible with God. noah and his fam obviously believed in God. otherwise they woundt have made the ark. hello
2very hard to explain. the first century church marks the beginning of christianity. reason for the other religions, is cus ppl have free will. we have the choice what to believe. sorry i cant answer this one with something cold and hard. our will as humans just isnt the blunt. its unfortunant to all those ppl who dont beileve in anything, as its a discrace to what we as ppl are capable of. to have faith.
1um dinosaurs were before humans, im right sure. at least based on evolution. but, if ur not in that crap, again, with God they were safe. and yes, dinosaurs are much more sturdy and stuff. but humans are just a little smarter. the cave men werent as stupid as they look ok.
stupid geico commercials. (gieco right?)
theres my two cents
ADAM's the one to talk to, we'd always talk about this together back in the pokemon era!
Good to see ya pal! :D
@ Ben da monkey man: "According to the law of cause and effect, every material object must have a greater cause to have an effect." I'm glad you put it this way because I've been thinking about this argument and have some thoughts that I haven't found elsewhere.
The argument is that nothing can come into existence without a greater cause. This is different from cause and effect in terms of motion. Why would we think that one thing's existence depends on another's? Have we ever seen one thing create another? No, we've only seen rearrangement of already existing things. We have no reason to think that one thing's existence is dependant on another's. It doesn't even make sense logically to think that one thing could come from another. Could 1 make 2? Where would the extra 1 come from? No, even if we saw one thing come into existence from another, we would have to say that the new thing came from nothing. Plus we actually have seen things come into existence with no apparent cause. What caused the big bang? What causes particle and antiparticle pairs to spark into existence and then annihilate each other? What causes the thoughts in our minds? We know of no cause for the existence of those things. Notice that those things compromise the entire universe. Conclusion: Something can only come from nothing.
Posted April 3, 2008 at 11:13am
, Edited April 3, 2008 at 11:24amLink
Quote Josean:
Quote Goobuoojuice: here's the list of things that just don't work for me, so just sit n' listen.
1. If the dinosaurs were around with humans, the humans would have died out by whatever killed all the dinosaurs, because if you hadn't noticed, dinosaurs are much, much more sturdy than humans.
2. If the bible is right, then what of all the other religions which all have different beliefs? are they wrong? remember, the first religion wasn't judiasm or christianity, it was the babylonian's or the Egyptian's religion, so what of them? they all had completely different ideas which you would call absurd, but is it anymore as absurd as what the bible tells you?
3. if all the other humans died when noah's flood happened, that means that noah's family would have had to have completely re-populated the planet, which is insane, if you ask me.
4. eve was made from adam's rib, which it states in the bible, then doesn't that make them of relation, then doesn't that mean that a brother and a sister made every person on earth? if that is true, everyone would be incest children, and all the people of earth would have the same skin colour and eyes and hair colour.
5. all of a sudden, in the newer part of the bible, god decides to completely turn nice all of a sudden and stop culling people by the hundreds just to prove a point: what happened there?
6. when did god stop coming to earth to intervene like he did before? he must've just stopped, eh?
7. if god made everything, why was there no mention of the rest of the galaxy or universe in the bible? because if he was there, he obviously must have known, right?
8. last but not least, if god made everything, who made god? did he just appear out of no-where? doesn't seem likely, as we needed a god to create the earth, so what god created our god?
there are many more points i have, but i can't be bothered to keep rambling on, y'see? just doesn't add up, right?
1) Dinosaurs weren't around with humans.
2) I don't understand this question. God established his rules through the Bible, does who do not follow are wrong.
3) It isn't absurd. There weren't that much people during Noah's era.
4) This doesn't make sense. It doesn't matter which belief you want to follow, humans started through a pair. What are you trying to ask?
5) Can elaborate on this?
6) He never came to Earth to intervene.
7) There is mention of stars and the vast space on the Bible.
8) This is a matter that cannot be answered. The Bible says that God has no beginning or end; it's a belief hold by faith. Our lives are ruled by beginnings and ends. Everything that goes up, most come down. Everything that lives, dies. Everything that is will stop to be. The notion of something that does not abide by our rules is incomprehensible. However, the same thing can be done with the "scientific" theories. OK, the Big Bang started everything, but who caused the Big Bang? Who put the materials needed for the Big Bang there? How did matter came to exist in nothing? When you try look for a beginning in the origin, you'll never be able to find it.
i just got owned, didn't i? but, just wait a minute, i didn't say they were questions, they were statements... and besides, what makes you think the bible is the one which is right? it may have been one of the many others, also the fact that all humans came from two people and multiplyed from there is a false statement, for many reasons, such as: skin coulour, hair colour eye colour, and so on, also, people would have not been able to cross the vast oceans if not for boats, which would not have been created by people who did not have the knowledge the be able to write things down, (at least), so there would have been no native americans, or native austrailians, either.
also, i consulted my religious studies teacher about this subjest, who explained the whole thing to me, so i probably retract my previous statement(y'see the one up there^) he said, the bible wasn't meant to be completely literal, it just tries to explain the way things were made and things like that, as how the people at the time that it was written saw it, and it is actually quite well thought out, but as the people at the time weren't the most advanced, they got some things wrong, but it was still pretty well thought through for the time it was actually written.
The reason that the idea of humans coming from an original pair(whether you're talking about Adam and eve or Noah and his wife) is false isn't because there are racial differences, but because there is no clear moment when monkey-men evolved into humans. There is no clear break between any species. If all of our dead ancestors were alive we would eventually find an ancestor who we couldn't interbreed with. But he could interbreed with the next generation that we also could interbreed with. Where we define the break between human and non-human is arbitrary.
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Let me try again. Genesis is a fairy tail. Noah and his ark are a fairy tale. Jesus is a fairy tale. The stories of the kings and wars of the Jewish people refer mostly to events that have been corroborated through other sources. Many of the details are impossible to confirm or discredit simply because they are so specific. Is Daniel the one where he interprets the dreams of Nebakanezer(great name)? How could we possibly know if that detail is true without a Babylonian account?
When I say I don't believe in the bible, I mean I don't believe in its divine origin, or its supernatural claims. Believing some parts of the bible is not the same as "having faith" in the bible. Just as I can believe that there was a city called Troy that was sacked, and not believe that there was a minotaur in a labyrinth. One thing is plausible and has some archaeological evidence. the other is ridiculous sounding and has no evidence whatsoever.
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Quote "Ben" on dinosaurs...
'I assume most died in the flood of Noah. Most dinosaurs were to big to fit in the ark, but he could have brought some baby dinosaurs and small ones.'
This is possibly the single funniest thing I have ever read! Bravo "Ben"! :) :) :)
Never mind "King Ben" or "Ben - da monkey man", I certainly support your election to "Pope Ben" or even your beatification to "Saint Ben".
I want more of this kind of stuff from you, please. :)
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There would be so much water vapor, that would make it impossible to breathe.
This thread is a joke.
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lol
Oooohhh geeeze.
Guess you hate anon...
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thats the whole point of discussing this. every point of veiw is valid, regardless of beliefs.
does anybody here follow a different religion other than christianity? i would love to read what your views and beliefs are.
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1. If the dinosaurs were around with humans, the humans would have died out by whatever killed all the dinosaurs, because if you hadn't noticed, dinosaurs are much, much more sturdy than humans.
2. If the bible is right, then what of all the other religions which all have different beliefs? are they wrong? remember, the first religion wasn't judiasm or christianity, it was the babylonian's or the Egyptian's religion, so what of them? they all had completely different ideas which you would call absurd, but is it anymore as absurd as what the bible tells you?
3. if all the other humans died when noah's flood happened, that means that noah's family would have had to have completely re-populated the planet, which is insane, if you ask me.
4. eve was made from adam's rib, which it states in the bible, then doesn't that make them of relation, then doesn't that mean that a brother and a sister made every person on earth? if that is true, everyone would be incest children, and all the people of earth would have the same skin colour and eyes and hair colour.
5. all of a sudden, in the newer part of the bible, god decides to completely turn nice all of a sudden and stop culling people by the hundreds just to prove a point: what happened there?
6. when did god stop coming to earth to intervene like he did before? he must've just stopped, eh?
7. if god made everything, why was there no mention of the rest of the galaxy or universe in the bible? because if he was there, he obviously must have known, right?
8. last but not least, if god made everything, who made god? did he just appear out of no-where? doesn't seem likely, as we needed a god to create the earth, so what god created our god?
there are many more points i have, but i can't be bothered to keep rambling on, y'see? just doesn't add up, right?
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God is not a material object.
It is also imposible for life to pop up on its own without something supernatural.
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1) Dinosaurs weren't around with humans.
2) I don't understand this question. God established his rules through the Bible, does who do not follow are wrong.
3) It isn't absurd. There weren't that much people during Noah's era.
4) This doesn't make sense. It doesn't matter which belief you want to follow, humans started through a pair. What are you trying to ask?
5) Can elaborate on this?
6) He never came to Earth to intervene.
7) There is mention of stars and the vast space on the Bible.
8) This is a matter that cannot be answered. The Bible says that God has no beginning or end; it's a belief hold by faith. Our lives are ruled by beginnings and ends. Everything that goes up, most come down. Everything that lives, dies. Everything that is will stop to be. The notion of something that does not abide by our rules is incomprehensible. However, the same thing can be done with the "scientific" theories. OK, the Big Bang started everything, but who caused the Big Bang? Who put the materials needed for the Big Bang there? How did matter came to exist in nothing? When you try look for a beginning in the origin, you'll never be able to find it.
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7it says God made everything. the sun the moon the skyies the stars. id have to say that thats the entire universe.
6um. God is still here all around us. hes the reason we are alive. so the answer is never. (not sure if that was ur question though)
5are you reffering to the new promise?
btw thats when Jesus' ministry began, the whole new testament is about Jesus and his disiples work. not sure what u are reffering too wen u say he got nice. yea he killed everyone on earth in the flood. he knew he had to fix things up. notice that he promises to never do that again. which he has kept that promise. (he has all the right to do it again, but he doesnt. take a look at the world we live in..)
4well the answer isnt so simple here. good question. i guess my question for you is, what defines race? becuase im pretty sure its based on the cultere, the location and all that good stuff.
weve had a lot a lot of time to change after all the continents formed. and if you believe in evolution, then the answer is right there.
as for those who beileve in what the bible says, member wen cain found his wife? the land of nod is what its known as. adam and eve where the first. period. but there were other people, later on. if you care so much, study. i dont care to cus i just believe. its such a simple little thing
3well did adam and eve not populate the whole earth. its possible with God. noah and his fam obviously believed in God. otherwise they woundt have made the ark. hello
2very hard to explain. the first century church marks the beginning of christianity. reason for the other religions, is cus ppl have free will. we have the choice what to believe. sorry i cant answer this one with something cold and hard. our will as humans just isnt the blunt. its unfortunant to all those ppl who dont beileve in anything, as its a discrace to what we as ppl are capable of. to have faith.
1um dinosaurs were before humans, im right sure. at least based on evolution. but, if ur not in that crap, again, with God they were safe. and yes, dinosaurs are much more sturdy and stuff. but humans are just a little smarter. the cave men werent as stupid as they look ok.
stupid geico commercials. (gieco right?)
theres my two cents
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Again, you're talking out of ignorance. But that's OK, if you allow me, I can explain to you what historians and scientists agree on; not what fanatics want to believe.
So, lets start with the book of Genesis. To understand the first verses of Genesis where it talks about the origin of everything, we need to look at this impartially. You may find that hard, but the best way to study something is to be objective.
There are a couple of things that need to be taken into understanding before reading the account of creation:
1) It wasn't written as a "how" of creation. Hence, it informs progressively of wholesome and important events; it describes the things that were formed, the order in which they were given form, and the amount of time (or "days") in which each one appeared originally.
2) It is important to remember that the account is written as being on Earth. Which means that the process is described with the point of view of somebody on Earth.
I'm not going to duel deeper into this matter. But basically, the account written on Genesis is respected by scientists as an accurate list of order in which the events would take place.
It is obvious Moses could not have known or copied this from somewhere else.
The Illustrated Bible Dictionary explains: "It still hasn't been found a myth that refers explicitly to the creation of the universe" and those myths that have been found "are stained by polytheism and deity battles for supremacy, in high contrast with the monotheistic Hebrew account of Genesis 1-2." The Museum of Britain said: The fundamental concepts of the Babylonian and Hebrew accounts are essentially different".
Now, if Moses didn't copy this account from somewhere else, how could he know with incredible accuracy the exact steps for the origin of life. Something that has been discovered only recently, in the past century?
Even evolutionists agree that the steps for creation written on the Bible are accurate and reflect the steps scientist have recently theorized on.
Noah and his ark are a fairy tale
May I ask how so?
There are many things that can collaborate this story.
Basically, there is enough water on Earth to flood the entire world. This is a fact.
I know this is a laughing matter for many people, but if you are willing to be serious about it, we can discuss it.
Jesus is a fairy tale
What are you saying? That Jesus did not exist or that he did exist but his life wasn't portrayed faithfully in the Bible?
Saying that Jesus did not exist is a pretty absurd claim. The existence of Jesus is testified by Jewish literature, amongst these the historian Josephus; by Roman accounts (which include but are not limited to writings from Tacitus, Suetonus, and Plinus the Young) and, of course, by the epistles and gospels.
Jesus was documented by historians, even the most powerful enemies of Christians during the Roman era did not deny his existence; it is absurd to do so now.
Also, can somebody that not existed be able to influence the world so incredible to the extent that even 2000 years later, his teachings are still latent in civilizations? I mean, even our calculation of years is based on Jesus existence.
The stories of the kings and wars of the Jewish people refer mostly to events that have been corroborated through other sources. Many of the details are impossible to confirm or discredit simply because they are so specific. Is Daniel the one where he interprets the dreams of Nebakanezer(great name)? How could we possibly know if that detail is true without a Babylonian account?
Um... what?
It is a fact that those books were written during their era. The story of the Jews were written during the time of the Jews. Daniel wrote the book during his time in Babylon.
The collaboration with other contemporaneous accounts is what makes the historic accuracy so incredible.
What, you think Moses turned on his computer and accessed the internet to learn about the wars of Jews?
You think Daniel went to the library with his library card to take an encyclopedia of the history of Babylon?
BTW, I see you're making fun of the name Nebakanezer. Funny, because that name, amongst hundreds of others, are confirmed by Babylonian scrolls to be authentic. Nebakanezer was a Babylonian King.
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For as lonf as I can remember, I have believed that religion is how scared people espace from the realities of real life. It is not a default in people, but more of an emotion. They wish to hide the fact that they are scared of the truth, and make up things to explain the unknown to themselves. It has happened as long as humans have existed (Which, I am pretty sure, Ben, is more than 6000 years lol).
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In a sense, that is true. However, every belief is hold by faith.
I can say that atheism is how scared people escape from the realities of life. For example, being hold accountable for their mistakes. Some use it as a way to justify their ways. And others (most of them) hold atheism for hate towards religion.
They wish to hide the fact that they are scared of the truth, and make up things to explain the unknown to themselves.
We all make up things to explain the unknown to ourselves.
Knowing if we came from monkeys or pigs makes no difference in my life.
I have moral, principles and a purpose in life; many things which religious fanatics and atheist lack vividly.
But, I do agree with you that religion is a farse and a way to make money and dominate the masses.
That's why, after studying throughly, I revolve my life around what the Bible says. I assure you, like rababob has exemplified, there are many misconceptions about the Bible. Most hold tight by fanatics because "they are scared of the truth".
Most people haven't study the Bible, even less read it. Have you? Most people base their judgment on the Bible from religion.
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"We all make up things to explain the unknown to ourselves."
I mentioned that as well. this is one of my favorite arguments to make.
"Most people haven't study the Bible, even less read it. Have you? Most people base their judgment on the Bible from religion."
Yes, I HAVE read it, and keep in mind that I am not criticizing it. I have respect for the Bible and it's scholars. It shows a great amount of devotion, which I am highly in favor of.
I would also like to make clear that I am atheist because it is what I have convinced myself of, and I believe I am correct. It's not for any hate reasons.
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You will reach a point in you answer yourself that there has to be a Superior Being that created everything, and that Being is God.
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Really? I'm sure that there are plenty of christian apologists who say that, so let's take a cursory look at genesis and see if it pans out.
Day 1: god makes light. Day 2: god makes sky and water. Day 3: god makes dry land. Then he makes plants. Day 4: God makes the sun and the moon and the stars. Day 5: god makes fish and birds. Day 6: god makes livestock and creatures that walk on the ground. Then god makes people. Day 7: god sparks a fatty.
So plants come before the sun the moon and the stars? Birds come at the same time as fish and before land animals like lizards? Domesticated animals come at the same time as wild? You can pick and choose the parts of the bible that don't contradict scientific discoveries, but don't try and tell me that scientists are amazed by the bible's accuracy. They aren't.
Noah: The story of a man who puts two of every creature on a boat, where the animals themselves come to the boat and don't kill each other presumes that god is intervening. Depending on how you define every type of creature, there could simply not be enough space for all the animals. It's a nice story, but not at all beleivable, unless you already accept that god can fix all the problems.
Jesus: Well I meant that the miracles were made up. But there is a question as to whether he actually was an historical figure. I don't care to argue one way or the other about whether he actually lived, but if anyone's interested check youtube for The God that wasn't There. But miracles don't happen. If you want me to think that they did, you'll need to do some splainin. The default position is to ignore claims of magic.
As far as the effect christianity has had on the world, I'm no more impressed by Mohammed's or Zoaster's or john Smith's, or L Ron Hubbard's effect on the world. Western success is more attributable to guns germs and steel than to Christ.
Daniel: It's your example, so I used it to illustrate a point about the limits of historical corroboration. Archeology can confirm if people lived where the bible says they lived. And other writings can confirm things like the names of kings and other important people. But the details, like whether or not Daniel interpreted Nebakenezar's dreams, can't be confirmed unless we find a Babylonian account, which we haven't.
And not that it matters but I think Nebakenezar is an awesome name.
But is the bible so incredibly accurate? It's not perfect. Like I said, the 40 years in the wilderness story has no evidence and sounds made up. But it is partly a history of the Jews so it isn't surprizing that there is some accuracy in the kings and wars of the Jews. But what does this have to do with stories of magic and angels and devils? That stuff isn't believable without other evidence. The historical and scientific accuracy arguements don't help, and not just because they aren't true.
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ADAM's the one to talk to, we'd always talk about this together back in the pokemon era!
Good to see ya pal! :D
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The argument is that nothing can come into existence without a greater cause. This is different from cause and effect in terms of motion. Why would we think that one thing's existence depends on another's? Have we ever seen one thing create another? No, we've only seen rearrangement of already existing things. We have no reason to think that one thing's existence is dependant on another's. It doesn't even make sense logically to think that one thing could come from another. Could 1 make 2? Where would the extra 1 come from? No, even if we saw one thing come into existence from another, we would have to say that the new thing came from nothing. Plus we actually have seen things come into existence with no apparent cause. What caused the big bang? What causes particle and antiparticle pairs to spark into existence and then annihilate each other? What causes the thoughts in our minds? We know of no cause for the existence of those things. Notice that those things compromise the entire universe. Conclusion: Something can only come from nothing.
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